[gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2298 bytes --]

Since I upgraded to KDE Frameworks 6 I have observed some rather unwanted 
window behaviours.

1. Window Interaction with Gkrellm

DESIRED BEHAVIOUR:
==================
I have Gkrellm started up by Plasma at login and placed at the top left of the 
screen.  I can't remember where/how I set this up, but at least it is still 
respected by KDE 6.  I've always set Gkrellm via its Configuration > General > 
Properties with:

+ Set sticky state

+ Set window type to be a dock or panel

This allowed the following interaction with other application windows:

- Other windows would launch without overlapping the Gkrellm window.  On an 
otherwise empty desktop they would be placed on the right of it.
- When a window was maximised it did not extend sideways to cover the whole 
screen beyond the position of the the Grkellm.
- When I dragged a window to force it to infringe the boundary of the Gkrellm 
window, the Gkrellm would overlap the dragged window.

UNDESIRED BEHAVIOUR:
===================
With KDE Frameworks 6, Gkrellm is not recognised/respected fully as a dock 
panel:

Other application windows will maximise to the full width of the screen and be 
overlapped by Gkrellm.  When the maximised window is a terminal, this can be 
quite unhelpful.

If I unset Gkrellm as a dock, then when I launch some application window 
Gkrellm will be overlapped indiscriminately.

I tried playing with various Gkrellm and KDE window settings, but I can't get 
it to interact with other windows in KDE 6 as it did in KDE 5.

2. Kmail compose window
=======================
The kmail composer window launches at the same size as the main kmail window.  
If I shrink it down to a more manageable size, then next time I launch kmail 
the main window is as small as I had shrunk its composer window.  In KDE 5 the 
kmail main window and composer window sizes were dealt as separate windows 
with their own size settings.  Now one seems to inherit the dimensions of the 
other.


Have you experienced anything similar?  How could I revert this unwanted 
window management behaviour to what KDE 5 window management was like?

PS. Extra bonus points for someone who can offer an explanation why kmail 
spellcheck suddenly started applying US English as opposed to the actual 
setting of British English.  o_O

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Dale]

Michael wrote:
> Since I upgraded to KDE Frameworks 6 I have observed some rather unwanted 
> window behaviours.
>
> 1. Window Interaction with Gkrellm
>
> DESIRED BEHAVIOUR:
> ==================
> I have Gkrellm started up by Plasma at login and placed at the top left of the 
> screen.  I can't remember where/how I set this up, but at least it is still 
> respected by KDE 6.  I've always set Gkrellm via its Configuration > General > 
> Properties with:
>
> + Set sticky state
>
> + Set window type to be a dock or panel
>
> This allowed the following interaction with other application windows:
>
> - Other windows would launch without overlapping the Gkrellm window.  On an 
> otherwise empty desktop they would be placed on the right of it.
> - When a window was maximised it did not extend sideways to cover the whole 
> screen beyond the position of the the Grkellm.
> - When I dragged a window to force it to infringe the boundary of the Gkrellm 
> window, the Gkrellm would overlap the dragged window.


I'm having issues with gkrellm as well.  I tend to put gkrellm on
desktop 10 on the left side.  I'd like it to be on screen 1 as well. 
When I first login, gkrellm is on desktop 1 and on screen 2.  I have to
move it every time.  Usually I right click on the top bar of a window, 
select More Actions and either Window Settings or Application Settings,
depending on which I want.  I can then add Properties and set it like I
want.  It is best to have it like you want it before you start.  It
already has the settings that way.  I do this for Seamonkey, both
browser and email, QB and a few other apps.  Thing is, gkrellm doesn't
have a title bar to right click on.  It works fine on my old rig but not
on the new rig.  When I had to use the old rig to watch TV, I checked, I
couldn't find anything that tells gkrellm to be where it is but it comes
up where I want it each time, apparently without me doing anything at
all.  New rig, it goes to the wrong place every single time.  It's wrong
but it is consistent. 

I have KDE set to remember what was open and where at logout.  I don't
know if KDE just isn't remembering where to put gkrellm because it isn't
really a window or what.  I might add tho, even tho screen 1 is set as
primary, it still acts like screen 2 is primary for some things.  I
wonder if that is why gkrellm parks itself on screen 2 instead.  Some
apps I use open to screen 2 until I set up a rule forcing it to open on
screen 1.  It should open there by default but it doesn't.  I might add,
when I plug in a USB stick, the notification thingy pops up on screen 2,
not screen 1 where it should be. 

I mention all this because it might give you a clue on where or how KDE
is working now.  Clearly gkrellm is unique because I can get everything
else to work right, even if I have to force it with window/application
rules. 

Oh, when looking at window rules in System Settings, it has a export and
import feature.  I never saw that before.  Might be new.  It's at the
top I think.  If you use that tool, may want to back up your settings
when you get everything done. 

Hope that gives you some clue to a fix.  Maybe. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5023 bytes --]

On Thursday 5 September 2024 15:34:06 BST Dale wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > Since I upgraded to KDE Frameworks 6 I have observed some rather unwanted
> > window behaviours.
> > 
> > 1. Window Interaction with Gkrellm
> > 
> > DESIRED BEHAVIOUR:
> > ==================
> > I have Gkrellm started up by Plasma at login and placed at the top left of
> > the screen.  I can't remember where/how I set this up, but at least it is
> > still respected by KDE 6.  I've always set Gkrellm via its Configuration
> > > General > Properties with:
> > 
> > + Set sticky state
> > 
> > + Set window type to be a dock or panel
> > 
> > This allowed the following interaction with other application windows:
> > 
> > - Other windows would launch without overlapping the Gkrellm window.  On
> > an
> > otherwise empty desktop they would be placed on the right of it.
> > - When a window was maximised it did not extend sideways to cover the
> > whole
> > screen beyond the position of the the Grkellm.
> > - When I dragged a window to force it to infringe the boundary of the
> > Gkrellm window, the Gkrellm would overlap the dragged window.
> 
> I'm having issues with gkrellm as well.  I tend to put gkrellm on
> desktop 10 on the left side.  I'd like it to be on screen 1 as well. 
> When I first login, gkrellm is on desktop 1 and on screen 2.  I have to
> move it every time.

Gkrellm should show up on all desktops, if you select 'Set sticky state'.  
However, I understand the position on the desktop is a Plasma setting, not an 
application setting.


> Usually I right click on the top bar of a window, 
> select More Actions and either Window Settings or Application Settings,
> depending on which I want.  I can then add Properties and set it like I
> want.  It is best to have it like you want it before you start.  It
> already has the settings that way.  I do this for Seamonkey, both
> browser and email, QB and a few other apps.  Thing is, gkrellm doesn't
> have a title bar to right click on.

If you right click on the Gkrellm on the Plasma toolbar you will be access the 
same Plasma window decorations as other windows have.  Or, easier, click 
Alt+F3 to popup the Plasma window menu on any application.

There is also a Grekllm setting under General > Properties > "Use window type 
decorations", but you'll have to restart Gkrellm for any changes to show up if 
you select this.


> It works fine on my old rig but not
> on the new rig.  When I had to use the old rig to watch TV, I checked, I
> couldn't find anything that tells gkrellm to be where it is but it comes
> up where I want it each time, apparently without me doing anything at
> all.  New rig, it goes to the wrong place every single time.  It's wrong
> but it is consistent. 

Quit Gkrellm, then relaunch it and place it where you want it on the screen.  
Hopefully Plasma will store this and survive a logout.  If not, open the 
Window decoration Plasma menu of Gkrellm after you reveal it as mentioned 
above and add the window 'Position' property.  Apply, then click OK.

NOTE:  I found such window positioning behavior to be particularly bad on X11 
as opposed to Wayland, but I understand NVidia is not yet working as well on 
Wayland so YMMV.


> I have KDE set to remember what was open and where at logout.  I don't
> know if KDE just isn't remembering where to put gkrellm because it isn't
> really a window or what.  I might add tho, even tho screen 1 is set as
> primary, it still acts like screen 2 is primary for some things.  I
> wonder if that is why gkrellm parks itself on screen 2 instead.  Some
> apps I use open to screen 2 until I set up a rule forcing it to open on
> screen 1.  It should open there by default but it doesn't.  I might add,
> when I plug in a USB stick, the notification thingy pops up on screen 2,
> not screen 1 where it should be. 

Hmm ... from what I see here notifications always popup on the primary screen 
- assuming you have no task bar on your secondary screen.

Also, if you click to launch an application, but you move your mouse and click 
quickly on the wallpaper on another screen, the application will launch on the 
screen you placed and clicked your mouse on.


> I mention all this because it might give you a clue on where or how KDE
> is working now.  Clearly gkrellm is unique because I can get everything
> else to work right, even if I have to force it with window/application
> rules. 
> 
> Oh, when looking at window rules in System Settings, it has a export and
> import feature.  I never saw that before.  Might be new.  It's at the
> top I think.  If you use that tool, may want to back up your settings
> when you get everything done. 
> 
> Hope that gives you some clue to a fix.  Maybe. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

SystemSettings > Window Management > Window Rules, shows any windows you have 
set bespoke settings for.  You can add and modify application window settings 
there, or you can do the same Alt+F3, the select More Actions and use the 
settings at the bottom of the menu.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Dale]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7170 bytes --]

Michael wrote:
> On Thursday 5 September 2024 15:34:06 BST Dale wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>> Since I upgraded to KDE Frameworks 6 I have observed some rather unwanted
>>> window behaviours.
>>>
>>> 1. Window Interaction with Gkrellm
>>>
>>> DESIRED BEHAVIOUR:
>>> ==================
>>> I have Gkrellm started up by Plasma at login and placed at the top left of
>>> the screen.  I can't remember where/how I set this up, but at least it is
>>> still respected by KDE 6.  I've always set Gkrellm via its Configuration
>>>> General > Properties with:
>>> + Set sticky state
>>>
>>> + Set window type to be a dock or panel
>>>
>>> This allowed the following interaction with other application windows:
>>>
>>> - Other windows would launch without overlapping the Gkrellm window.  On
>>> an
>>> otherwise empty desktop they would be placed on the right of it.
>>> - When a window was maximised it did not extend sideways to cover the
>>> whole
>>> screen beyond the position of the the Grkellm.
>>> - When I dragged a window to force it to infringe the boundary of the
>>> Gkrellm window, the Gkrellm would overlap the dragged window.
>> I'm having issues with gkrellm as well.  I tend to put gkrellm on
>> desktop 10 on the left side.  I'd like it to be on screen 1 as well. 
>> When I first login, gkrellm is on desktop 1 and on screen 2.  I have to
>> move it every time.
> Gkrellm should show up on all desktops, if you select 'Set sticky state'.  
> However, I understand the position on the desktop is a Plasma setting, not an 
> application setting.
>

I only want it on desktop 10.  Some do want it on all desktops but I
just want it on that one.  And on screen 1 would be nice.  When I'm not
in my chair, I tend to park on desktop 10.  I can see gkrellm and with
that, know pretty well what is going on.  I can even tell if a update is
done or copying files within Konsole has completed. 

>> Usually I right click on the top bar of a window, 
>> select More Actions and either Window Settings or Application Settings,
>> depending on which I want.  I can then add Properties and set it like I
>> want.  It is best to have it like you want it before you start.  It
>> already has the settings that way.  I do this for Seamonkey, both
>> browser and email, QB and a few other apps.  Thing is, gkrellm doesn't
>> have a title bar to right click on.
> If you right click on the Gkrellm on the Plasma toolbar you will be access the 
> same Plasma window decorations as other windows have.  Or, easier, click 
> Alt+F3 to popup the Plasma window menu on any application.
>
> There is also a Grekllm setting under General > Properties > "Use window type 
> decorations", but you'll have to restart Gkrellm for any changes to show up if 
> you select this.
>

I didn't know about the Alt+F3 option.  I did that and my menu popped
up.  I set it to be where I want it, screen 1 and desktop 10.  I'm sure
it will stay where it is told now.  Those window rules tend to work well
when it detects the window correctly. 

>> It works fine on my old rig but not
>> on the new rig.  When I had to use the old rig to watch TV, I checked, I
>> couldn't find anything that tells gkrellm to be where it is but it comes
>> up where I want it each time, apparently without me doing anything at
>> all.  New rig, it goes to the wrong place every single time.  It's wrong
>> but it is consistent. 
> Quit Gkrellm, then relaunch it and place it where you want it on the screen.  
> Hopefully Plasma will store this and survive a logout.  If not, open the 
> Window decoration Plasma menu of Gkrellm after you reveal it as mentioned 
> above and add the window 'Position' property.  Apply, then click OK.
>
> NOTE:  I found such window positioning behavior to be particularly bad on X11 
> as opposed to Wayland, but I understand NVidia is not yet working as well on 
> Wayland so YMMV.
>

I'm wondering if I should buy video cards that are not Nvidia.  It used
to be that Nvidia was the Linux video card.  They had excellent support
and all.  It seems they have fallen some. 

I think the window rule will fix this tho. 

>> I have KDE set to remember what was open and where at logout.  I don't
>> know if KDE just isn't remembering where to put gkrellm because it isn't
>> really a window or what.  I might add tho, even tho screen 1 is set as
>> primary, it still acts like screen 2 is primary for some things.  I
>> wonder if that is why gkrellm parks itself on screen 2 instead.  Some
>> apps I use open to screen 2 until I set up a rule forcing it to open on
>> screen 1.  It should open there by default but it doesn't.  I might add,
>> when I plug in a USB stick, the notification thingy pops up on screen 2,
>> not screen 1 where it should be. 
> Hmm ... from what I see here notifications always popup on the primary screen 
> - assuming you have no task bar on your secondary screen.
>
> Also, if you click to launch an application, but you move your mouse and click 
> quickly on the wallpaper on another screen, the application will launch on the 
> screen you placed and clicked your mouse on.
>

For some reason, the second monitor has a plasma thing, where app menu
icon, virtual desktop, clock and such is, on the second monitor as
well.  My TV screen has nothing.  No desktop icons, plasma thingy or
anything.  It just has a default background image and that is it.  Why
the second monitor got done that way, I dunno.  May I should remove the
plasma thing completely. 

>> I mention all this because it might give you a clue on where or how KDE
>> is working now.  Clearly gkrellm is unique because I can get everything
>> else to work right, even if I have to force it with window/application
>> rules. 
>>
>> Oh, when looking at window rules in System Settings, it has a export and
>> import feature.  I never saw that before.  Might be new.  It's at the
>> top I think.  If you use that tool, may want to back up your settings
>> when you get everything done. 
>>
>> Hope that gives you some clue to a fix.  Maybe. 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> SystemSettings > Window Management > Window Rules, shows any windows you have 
> set bespoke settings for.  You can add and modify application window settings 
> there, or you can do the same Alt+F3, the select More Actions and use the 
> settings at the bottom of the menu.

I've used that before to remove rules that are not working right and I
want a fresh start.  I've never used it to set up a rule tho.  It's a
lot easier to right click on title bar and then it detects a lot of the
settings already.  Just add things you want to change. 

On other email, I to would miss gkrellm hugely.  I hate to hear the
developer died.  He created a truly awesome tool.  I barely scrape the
surface of what gkrellm is capable of and it is still irreplaceable.  If
it stops working, I'll be lost.  Other tools don't even come close. 
It's about info, not being pretty and flashy.  Or if Google did it,
taking over the OS.  ROFL 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  QB is still working.  Files are checking out OK so far.  It will
fix any errors tho.  I need that tool to do my video collection.  o_O

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 10350 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 949 bytes --]

On Friday 6 September 2024 02:02:55 BST Dale wrote:

> For some reason, the second monitor has a plasma thing, where app menu
> icon, virtual desktop, clock and such is, on the second monitor as
> well.  My TV screen has nothing.  No desktop icons, plasma thingy or
> anything.  It just has a default background image and that is it.  Why
> the second monitor got done that way, I dunno.  May I should remove the
> plasma thing completely. 

The "... plasma thing" = Plasma Panel container

Can be placed on any screen edge.

Can be more than one.

Starting from the left, it contains: 

1. Kmenu (i.e. application menu/launcher)
2. Desktop pager (virtual desktops)
3. Task manager (shortcut icons to applications and open applications)
4. System Tray (notifications, Kmix, clock, etc.)

From what I recall SystemSettings allows you to select to have the Plasma 
Panel only on the primary monitor.  That's how I've set it on a dual monitor 
PC here.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Dale]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2391 bytes --]

Michael wrote:
> On Friday 6 September 2024 02:02:55 BST Dale wrote:
>
>> For some reason, the second monitor has a plasma thing, where app menu
>> icon, virtual desktop, clock and such is, on the second monitor as
>> well.  My TV screen has nothing.  No desktop icons, plasma thingy or
>> anything.  It just has a default background image and that is it.  Why
>> the second monitor got done that way, I dunno.  May I should remove the
>> plasma thing completely. 
> The "... plasma thing" = Plasma Panel container
>
> Can be placed on any screen edge.
>
> Can be more than one.
>
> Starting from the left, it contains: 
>
> 1. Kmenu (i.e. application menu/launcher)
> 2. Desktop pager (virtual desktops)
> 3. Task manager (shortcut icons to applications and open applications)
> 4. System Tray (notifications, Kmix, clock, etc.)
>
> >From what I recall SystemSettings allows you to select to have the Plasma 
> Panel only on the primary monitor.  That's how I've set it on a dual monitor 
> PC here.


Well, on my old rig, the second screen, TV, never had the plasma panel. 
On the new rig, it showed up on both from the beginning.  I guess I
could just delete/remove it.  I don't really see a need for two anyway. 
I get why the primary has one.  Just no idea why the second does but yet
the third doesn't.  It looks like if the default is to add one to all
screens, then the TV would have one too.  It's not like the puter knows
I only have two of the monitors sitting in front of me and the third is
elsewhere.  ;-) 

I might add, another odd thing that started after a recent update.  When
I logout of KDE or when first booting and am on the sddm login screen,
my first monitor powers off.  The second monitor stays on and has the
login screen as does the TV screen.  Yet the primary screen turns off. 
At first when we got past the wonky monitor problem, all three would
stay on and mirror each other.  Now it doesn't. 

I might add, if I switch to a console, screen one turns back on and all
three mirror each other.  I kinda like that because if I need to do
something that takes a bit, I don't have to go to the living room to
turn the TV back on again. 

This monitor situation is getting plenty weird.  I never know when it is
going to change something and work weirdly.  I don't know what is
changing it tho.  I haven't changed anything. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3218 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1129 bytes --]

On Friday 6 September 2024 12:04:08 BST Dale wrote:

> I might add, another odd thing that started after a recent update.  When
> I logout of KDE or when first booting and am on the sddm login screen,
> my first monitor powers off.  The second monitor stays on and has the
> login screen as does the TV screen.  Yet the primary screen turns off. 
> At first when we got past the wonky monitor problem, all three would
> stay on and mirror each other.  Now it doesn't. 
> 
> I might add, if I switch to a console, screen one turns back on and all
> three mirror each other.  I kinda like that because if I need to do
> something that takes a bit, I don't have to go to the living room to
> turn the TV back on again. 

It sounds as if the primary monitor is using DPMS in Xorg, if you're running 
X, or some similar energy saving feature.  Check SystemSettings > Power 
Management > Display and Brightness.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I think my Gkrellm dock panel problem is related 
to KDE 6 not identifying the Gkrellm window as a 'dock/panel', probably 
because the Gtk2 code is far too old to integrate with Plasma.  :-(



[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Dale]

Michael wrote:
> On Friday 6 September 2024 12:04:08 BST Dale wrote:
>
>> I might add, another odd thing that started after a recent update.  When
>> I logout of KDE or when first booting and am on the sddm login screen,
>> my first monitor powers off.  The second monitor stays on and has the
>> login screen as does the TV screen.  Yet the primary screen turns off. 
>> At first when we got past the wonky monitor problem, all three would
>> stay on and mirror each other.  Now it doesn't. 
>>
>> I might add, if I switch to a console, screen one turns back on and all
>> three mirror each other.  I kinda like that because if I need to do
>> something that takes a bit, I don't have to go to the living room to
>> turn the TV back on again. 
> It sounds as if the primary monitor is using DPMS in Xorg, if you're running 
> X, or some similar energy saving feature.  Check SystemSettings > Power 
> Management > Display and Brightness.

You may be on to something.  I have DPMS enabled on my two main monitors
but not the TV.  That said, I had my monitors set to not turn off.  I
did that the other day so that they would stay on while I was doing my
emerge -e world.  I wanted to keep a eye on it in case something failed
and the emerge stopped. 

Should I have DPMS set to on or turn them all off in xorg.conf?  I'm
thinking on.  Thursday a week ago tho, everything turned off when I
locked the screen, TV as well.  It seems it can turn things off even
without DPMS. 

> Meanwhile back at the ranch, I think my Gkrellm dock panel problem is related 
> to KDE 6 not identifying the Gkrellm window as a 'dock/panel', probably 
> because the Gtk2 code is far too old to integrate with Plasma.  :-(
>
>


This is bad.  It's a sign gkrellm might stop working.  I hope someone
who can code will update and keep gkrellm alive and going.  I'd hate to
see that go away.  That's a awesome tool that is impossible to replace. 
I don't know of anything that comes close. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2608 bytes --]

On Friday 6 September 2024 12:40:25 BST Dale wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > On Friday 6 September 2024 12:04:08 BST Dale wrote:
> >> I might add, another odd thing that started after a recent update.  When
> >> I logout of KDE or when first booting and am on the sddm login screen,
> >> my first monitor powers off.  The second monitor stays on and has the
> >> login screen as does the TV screen.  Yet the primary screen turns off.
> >> At first when we got past the wonky monitor problem, all three would
> >> stay on and mirror each other.  Now it doesn't.
> >> 
> >> I might add, if I switch to a console, screen one turns back on and all
> >> three mirror each other.  I kinda like that because if I need to do
> >> something that takes a bit, I don't have to go to the living room to
> >> turn the TV back on again.
> > 
> > It sounds as if the primary monitor is using DPMS in Xorg, if you're
> > running X, or some similar energy saving feature.  Check SystemSettings >
> > Power Management > Display and Brightness.
> 
> You may be on to something.  I have DPMS enabled on my two main monitors
> but not the TV.  That said, I had my monitors set to not turn off.  I
> did that the other day so that they would stay on while I was doing my
> emerge -e world.  I wanted to keep a eye on it in case something failed
> and the emerge stopped. 
> 
> Should I have DPMS set to on or turn them all off in xorg.conf?  I'm
> thinking on.  Thursday a week ago tho, everything turned off when I
> locked the screen, TV as well.  It seems it can turn things off even
> without DPMS. 
> 
> > Meanwhile back at the ranch, I think my Gkrellm dock panel problem is
> > related to KDE 6 not identifying the Gkrellm window as a 'dock/panel',
> > probably because the Gtk2 code is far too old to integrate with Plasma. 
> > :-(
> This is bad.  It's a sign gkrellm might stop working.  I hope someone
> who can code will update and keep gkrellm alive and going.  I'd hate to
> see that go away.  That's a awesome tool that is impossible to replace. 
> I don't know of anything that comes close. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 


The second problem I started this thread with, related to the Kmail composer 
window inheriting the main Kmail window size and vice versa, seems to occur 
because both windows are identified having the same "kmail org.kde.kmail2" 
named Class.  I played around with various properties, like window type and 
what not, but I have not been able to add a separate window size for the 
composer alone without affecting the main Kmail window.  If anyone comes up 
with a working solution please chime in!

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Jack]

On 2024.09.06 11:12, Michael wrote:

[snip ....]
> The second problem I started this thread with, related to the Kmail  
> composer window inheriting the main Kmail window size and vice versa,  
> seems to occur because both windows are identified having the same  
> "kmail org.kde.kmail2" named Class.  I played around with various  
> properties, like window type and what not, but I have not been able  
> to add a separate window size for the composer alone without  
> affecting the main Kmail window.  If anyone comes up with a working  
> solution please chime in!

I haven't been following very closely, but it sound like one approach  
would be to have one of the windows use a different name Class.  Might  
it be worth raising as an issue for kmail itself?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1348 bytes --]

On Friday 6 September 2024 20:37:59 BST Jack wrote:
> On 2024.09.06 11:12, Michael wrote:
> 
> [snip ....]
> 
> > The second problem I started this thread with, related to the Kmail
> > composer window inheriting the main Kmail window size and vice versa,
> > seems to occur because both windows are identified having the same
> > "kmail org.kde.kmail2" named Class.  I played around with various
> > properties, like window type and what not, but I have not been able
> > to add a separate window size for the composer alone without
> > affecting the main Kmail window.  If anyone comes up with a working
> > solution please chime in!
> 
> I haven't been following very closely, but it sound like one approach
> would be to have one of the windows use a different name Class.  Might
> it be worth raising as an issue for kmail itself?

I understood the Window Class of an application is hard coded, all a user like 
me can do is select it.  I can't claim to understand this correctly, or 
furthermore understand how the X11 properties transpose over to a Wayland 
desktop:

https://www.x.org/releases/current/doc/xorg-docs/icccm/
icccm.html#WM_CLASS_Property

Either way, the good news is others have been annoyed similarly by this 
behaviour and raised a bug report.  It seems to be a regression bug:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=484327

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re gkrellm: Was: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Jack]

On 2024.09.05 09:22, Michael wrote:
> Since I upgraded to KDE Frameworks 6 I have observed some rather  
> unwanted
> window behaviours.
> 
> 1. Window Interaction with Gkrellm

[snipped lots ....]

The latest release of gkrellm seems to have been over three years ago,  
and unfortunately, I suspect there might not be another.  The primary  
developer died three and a half years ago, and while there is still  
some minor activity (or at least was last time I looked) nobody had  
stepped up to fully take over.  The current version still uses gtk+2,  
and based on the discussions, the way the program works is rather  
deeply embedded in the lower levels thereof, and  the port to gtk+3 (or  
even 4) will not be easy.

[I did not start a new thread, intending this just as a heads up in  
case any of the discovered causes of the posted problems end up due to  
anything actually in gkrellm rather then in the new KDE workings.]

Re: Re gkrellm: Was: [gentoo-user] KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1347 bytes --]

Thanks Jack,

On Thursday 5 September 2024 21:30:54 BST Jack wrote:
> On 2024.09.05 09:22, Michael wrote:
> > Since I upgraded to KDE Frameworks 6 I have observed some rather
> > unwanted
> > window behaviours.
> > 
> > 1. Window Interaction with Gkrellm
> 
> [snipped lots ....]
> 
> The latest release of gkrellm seems to have been over three years ago,
> and unfortunately, I suspect there might not be another.  The primary
> developer died three and a half years ago, and while there is still
> some minor activity (or at least was last time I looked) nobody had
> stepped up to fully take over.  The current version still uses gtk+2,
> and based on the discussions, the way the program works is rather
> deeply embedded in the lower levels thereof, and  the port to gtk+3 (or
> even 4) will not be easy.
> 
> [I did not start a new thread, intending this just as a heads up in
> case any of the discovered causes of the posted problems end up due to
> anything actually in gkrellm rather then in the new KDE workings.]

I was aware the developer passed and the future of Gkrellm is uncertain.  I 
expect I will find using a PC without it *very* frustrating.  The problems I 
was alerted to look into over the years because of some indication in Gkrellm 
are too many to mention.  I hope someone comes forward and refactors the code 
in time.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2663 bytes --]

On Thursday 5 September 2024 14:22:54 BST you wrote:
> Since I upgraded to KDE Frameworks 6 I have observed some rather unwanted
> window behaviours.
> 
> 1. Window Interaction with Gkrellm
> 
> DESIRED BEHAVIOUR:
> ==================
> I have Gkrellm started up by Plasma at login and placed at the top left of
> the screen.  I can't remember where/how I set this up, but at least it is
> still respected by KDE 6.  I've always set Gkrellm via its Configuration >
> General > Properties with:
> 
> + Set sticky state
> 
> + Set window type to be a dock or panel
> 
> This allowed the following interaction with other application windows:
> 
> - Other windows would launch without overlapping the Gkrellm window.  On an
> otherwise empty desktop they would be placed on the right of it.
> - When a window was maximised it did not extend sideways to cover the whole
> screen beyond the position of the the Grkellm.
> - When I dragged a window to force it to infringe the boundary of the
> Gkrellm window, the Gkrellm would overlap the dragged window.
> 
> UNDESIRED BEHAVIOUR:
> ===================
> With KDE Frameworks 6, Gkrellm is not recognised/respected fully as a dock
> panel:
> 
> Other application windows will maximise to the full width of the screen and
> be overlapped by Gkrellm.  When the maximised window is a terminal, this
> can be quite unhelpful.
> 
> If I unset Gkrellm as a dock, then when I launch some application window
> Gkrellm will be overlapped indiscriminately.
> 
> I tried playing with various Gkrellm and KDE window settings, but I can't
> get it to interact with other windows in KDE 6 as it did in KDE 5.

I seem to have overcome this problem!

The first time I started Plasma/KDE6 I noticed the Gkrellm was placed in the 
middle of the screen.  I dragged it to the top left, where I want it to be 
launched at startup.  This happened a number of times and at some point I 
closed it down and restarted it to make sure it will retain its position on 
the screen and by mistake, IIRC, I started a second Gkrellm instance at the 
same time.  Then I closed the previous Gkrellm window.

Well, whatever were the settings of that 2nd Gkrellm window meant it was never 
recognised as a dock and was being under/overlapped by other applications.  
Today I started again a second Gkrellm window instance, which I noticed was 
behaving correctly as a dock!  o_O

I closed the previous misbehaving instance, moved the second Gkrellm window in 
its place and restarted Plasma.  This proved the Gkrellm which now launched at 
start up worked correctly as a dock.  :D

I can't claim to understand this, but happy with the result all the same.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE Frameworks 6 window management

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 24 September 2024 18:11:09 BST Michael wrote:

> I can't claim to understand this, but happy with the result all the same.

Best just to put it down to the vagaries of GTK2 in a plama environment.

:)

-- 
Regards,
Peter.