[gentoo-dev] Destabling of hppa and sparc

[gentoo-dev] Destabling of hppa and sparc

[Arthur Zamarin]

After the council meeting of 2025-08, we decided to destable hppa
and sparc, mainly because of the lack of devbox, which results
increasing bugs queue, causing havoc for all other arches and
cleanup of old versions.

We plan to push this destabilization on 2025-09-01.

[gentoo-dev] [PATCH 1/2] 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed: add news item

[Arthur Zamarin]

Signed-off-by: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
---
 ...25-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt | 17 +++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 17 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt

diff --git a/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt b/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..4a8a532
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+Title: Stable hppa keywords removed
+Author: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
+Posted: 2025-08-23
+Revision: 1
+News-Item-Format: 2.0
+Display-If-Keyword: hppa
+
+The Gentoo/HPPA team has decided that the time invested in package
+stabilization is no longer justified by the small number of users on the HP
+Precision Architecture (hppa). In addition, Gentoo currently lacks a working
+stable development machine.
+
+As a result, all "hppa" keywords will be changed to "~hppa" on 2025-09-01,
+abd the "~hppa" keyword will be added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.
+
+Users need not make any changes to their systems, and the Gentoo/HPPA team
+does not currently plan to remove support for the architecture.
-- 
2.51.0

[gentoo-dev] [PATCH 2/2] 2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed: add news item

[Arthur Zamarin]

Signed-off-by: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
---
 ...5-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt | 17 +++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 17 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt

diff --git a/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt b/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..833bb7e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+Title: Stable sparc keywords removed
+Author: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
+Posted: 2025-08-23
+Revision: 1
+News-Item-Format: 2.0
+Display-If-Keyword: sparc
+
+The Gentoo/SPARC team has decided that the time invested in package
+stabilization is no longer justified by the small number of users on the
+sparc architecture. In addition, Gentoo currently lacks a working stable
+development machine.
+
+As a result, all "sparc" keywords will be changed to "~sparc" on 2025-09-01,
+abd the "~sparc" keyword will be added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.
+
+Users need not make any changes to their systems, and the Gentoo/SPARC team
+does not currently plan to remove support for the architecture.
-- 
2.51.0

Re: [gentoo-dev] Destabling of hppa and sparc

[Sam James]

Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org> writes:

> After the council meeting of 2025-08, we decided to destable hppa
> and sparc, mainly because of the lack of devbox, which results
> increasing bugs queue, causing havoc for all other arches and
> cleanup of old versions.
>
> We plan to push this destabilization on 2025-09-01.

My gut reaction was "we should wait 30 days" but I can't see what reason
there is to, tbh, as even if someone offered hardware, I have no idea
where we'd put it, etc. So OK.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH 1/2] 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed: add news item

[Sam James]

Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org> writes:

> Signed-off-by: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
> ---
>  ...25-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt | 17 +++++++++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 17 insertions(+)
>  create mode 100644 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt

LGTM. I'm of course a little sad over it, but it's too expensive for me
to run my own machine 24/7, and the backlog of trivial stablereqs means
then I don't have much time/energy to work on "real" hppa bugs.

So, if anything, this (and the sparc change) may well mean the arch ends
up in a better state.

>
> diff --git
> a/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
> b/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
> new file mode 100644
> index 0000000..4a8a532
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
> @@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
> +Title: Stable hppa keywords removed
> +Author: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
> +Posted: 2025-08-23
> +Revision: 1
> +News-Item-Format: 2.0
> +Display-If-Keyword: hppa
> +
> +The Gentoo/HPPA team has decided that the time invested in package
> +stabilization is no longer justified by the small number of users on the HP
> +Precision Architecture (hppa). In addition, Gentoo currently lacks a working
> +stable development machine.
> +
> +As a result, all "hppa" keywords will be changed to "~hppa" on 2025-09-01,
> +abd the "~hppa" keyword will be added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.
> +
> +Users need not make any changes to their systems, and the Gentoo/HPPA team
> +does not currently plan to remove support for the architecture.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH 2/2] 2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed: add news item

[Sam James]

Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org> writes:

> Signed-off-by: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>

OK, again with regret, but I think this may end up with the arch being
in a better state than now (see my hppa email).

> ---
>  ...5-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt | 17 +++++++++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 17 insertions(+)
>  create mode 100644 2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
>
> diff --git
> a/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
> b/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
> new file mode 100644
> index 0000000..833bb7e
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
> @@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
> +Title: Stable sparc keywords removed
> +Author: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
> +Posted: 2025-08-23
> +Revision: 1
> +News-Item-Format: 2.0
> +Display-If-Keyword: sparc
> +
> +The Gentoo/SPARC team has decided that the time invested in package
> +stabilization is no longer justified by the small number of users on the
> +sparc architecture. In addition, Gentoo currently lacks a working stable
> +development machine.
> +
> +As a result, all "sparc" keywords will be changed to "~sparc" on 2025-09-01,
> +abd the "~sparc" keyword will be added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.
> +
> +Users need not make any changes to their systems, and the Gentoo/SPARC team
> +does not currently plan to remove support for the architecture.

[gentoo-dev] Re: [PATCH 1/2] 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed: add news item

[Duncan]

Arthur Zamarin posted on Sat, 23 Aug 2025 22:51:55 +0300 as excerpted:

> +As a result, all "hppa" keywords will be changed to "~hppa" on 2025-09-01,
> +abd the "~hppa" keyword will be added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.

Typo: s/abd/and/

Also, trivial/ymmv but: I believe that post-date comma isn't needed as
written, but at least here it actually reads smoother keeping the comma
and changing the last line changed to:

with the "~hppa" keyword added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.

(That is, keep the post date comma, s/abd/with/ and /will\ be\ /d .)

And of course the same changes for the sparc newsitem.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH 1/2] 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed: add news item

[Ulrich Müller]

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>>>>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2025, Arthur Zamarin wrote:

> +stabilization is no longer justified by the small number of users on the HP
> +Precision Architecture (hppa). In addition, Gentoo currently lacks a working

Expand the acronym completely, i.e. "Hewlett Packard Precision
Architecture"? That's also what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PA-RISC
says.

Ulrich

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH 2/2] 2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed: add news item

[Ulrich Müller]

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>>>>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2025, Arthur Zamarin wrote:

> +sparc architecture. In addition, Gentoo currently lacks a working stable

This should be all-caps, i.e. "SPARC architecture".

Ulrich

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH 1/2] 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed: add news item

[Sam James]

Sam James <sam@gentoo.org> writes:

> Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org> writes:
>
>> Signed-off-by: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
>> ---
>>  ...25-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt | 17 +++++++++++++++++
>>  1 file changed, 17 insertions(+)
>>  create mode 100644 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
>
> LGTM. I'm of course a little sad over it, but it's too expensive for me
> to run my own machine 24/7, and the backlog of trivial stablereqs means
> then I don't have much time/energy to work on "real" hppa bugs.
>
> So, if anything, this (and the sparc change) may well mean the arch ends
> up in a better state.

I was going to write an explanation for somebody else and figured I'd
write it here just for completeness: the reason we're doing this (and
for hppa) is that stabilisation requires a high amount of effort.

The following is so I can link to it when people ask..

Many packages get frequent releases. We recommend 30 days before a
new version is considered for stabilisation (exceptions apply for
special packages where they need updates to keep working with an
external service, security fixes, minor bug fix releases for
regressions, etc). If something starts to fail tests on an arch, this
blocks the process and someone has to investigate.

This of course is invaluable in finding regressions, but it requires a
lot of time to sit and check what an issue was. On slower machines,
they're often timeouts or some other transient failure. But you can't
know that until you sit down and check it. And there's a huge number of
other such issues which affect arches/platforms where stabilisation
actually benefits people.

sparc and hppa (in particular) never had huge userbases but the question
is not "is stable a good thing", but rather "is it actually helping
people on this arch, and is it worth it"?

Combined with the lack of hardware right now (our hppa machine seems to
have died and my home one is too expensive to run 24/7; our sparc one
uses too much power and the power management patches from Oracle were
never ported to newer Linux versions or upstreamed), all we're really
doing is making people frustrated with our portability because the
delays in sparc or hppa completing stabilisation hold up the whole bug,
cleanups, and also prevent automation from flagging new versions for
stabilisation for other arches.

Destabilisation doesn't mean we're going to remove an arch, just that
the trade-off for being able to compile & run tests for a package very
often (and having someone be able to check on failures) has moved for
these arches.

sam

> [...]

[gentoo-dev] Destabling of hppa and sparc

[Arthur Zamarin]

After the council meeting of 2025-08, we decided to destable hppa
and sparc, mainly because of the lack of devbox, which results
increasing bugs queue, causing havoc for all other arches and
cleanup of old versions.

We plan to push this destabilization on 2025-09-01.

Changes in V2: apply changes suggested by ulm, sam, dakon.

[gentoo-dev] [PATCH v2 1/2] 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed: add news item

[Arthur Zamarin]

Signed-off-by: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
---
 ...25-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt | 17 +++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 17 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt

diff --git a/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt b/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..ca637be
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-hppa-keywords-removed.en.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+Title: Stable hppa keywords removed
+Author: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
+Posted: 2025-08-23
+Revision: 1
+News-Item-Format: 2.0
+Display-If-Keyword: hppa
+
+The Gentoo/HPPA team has decided that the time invested in package
+stabilization is no longer justified by the small number of users on the
+Hewlett Packard Precision Architecture (hppa). In addition, Gentoo currently
+lacks a working stable development machine.
+
+As a result, all "hppa" keywords will be changed to "~hppa" on 2025-09-01,
+with the "~hppa" keyword added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.
+
+Users need not make any changes to their systems, and the Gentoo/HPPA team
+does not currently plan to remove support for the architecture.
-- 
2.51.0

[gentoo-dev] [PATCH v2 2/2] 2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed: add news item

[Arthur Zamarin]

Signed-off-by: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
---
 ...5-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt | 17 +++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 17 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt

diff --git a/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt b/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..54a536e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed/2025-08-23-stable-sparc-keywords-removed.en.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+Title: Stable sparc keywords removed
+Author: Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org>
+Posted: 2025-08-23
+Revision: 1
+News-Item-Format: 2.0
+Display-If-Keyword: sparc
+
+The Gentoo/SPARC team has decided that the time invested in package
+stabilization is no longer justified by the small number of users on the
+SPARC architecture. In addition, Gentoo currently lacks a working stable
+development machine.
+
+As a result, all "sparc" keywords will be changed to "~sparc" on 2025-09-01,
+with the "~sparc" keyword added to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in the profile.
+
+Users need not make any changes to their systems, and the Gentoo/SPARC team
+does not currently plan to remove support for the architecture.
-- 
2.51.0