From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NyLi2-0000KW-FT for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 09:01:34 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D7935E0940; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 09:01:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.a3li.li (stingray.a3li.info [78.46.109.74]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D94CE08D5 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 09:01:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (stingray.a3li.info [127.0.0.1]) by mail.a3li.li (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB6312314C6 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:01:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at a3li.li Received: from mail.a3li.li (p5081993E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.129.153.62]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.a3li.li (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2A96F1231461 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:01:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:01:19 +0200 From: Alex Legler To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [Gentoo Phoenix] an official Gentoo wiki Message-ID: <20100404110119.62ce8677@mail.a3li.li> In-Reply-To: <20100404003152.4b2012da@angelstorm> References: <20100403163010.1897d663@mail.a3li.li> <4BB7D11F.7060207@gentoo.org> <20100404003152.4b2012da@angelstorm> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.5 (GTK+ 2.18.7; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/N2hNiNi5+RkKETbzFka=BAj"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: f426e395-004f-48bb-b12d-0a84ae255549 X-Archives-Hash: b45edd176209256ddd3a7838cd53e3d9 --Sig_/N2hNiNi5+RkKETbzFka=BAj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 00:31:52 -0700, Joshua Saddler wrote: >=20 > No, he's definitely out to kill GuideXML. Just give him time. >=20 At least for official documentation, that should not happen. (That excludes non-doc parts of the website though imo. GuideXML is a XML "DSL" designed for documentation, sadly it sucks for doing websites.) > > A wiki can fulfill several purposes for us: > >=20 > [...] >=20 > However, a wiki *does* make it easier for everyone to jump right in > and edit stuff as ideas are passed around, rather than waiting for > someone to make changes to something in a devspace. >=20 That's why we should want a wiki for general collaboration. > > 3. A place to host and maintain our existing documentation > > [which is currently in GuideXML] >=20 > Entirely unnecessary duplication of effort. To quote the forum mods, > "don't cross-post" . . . and especially don't do it if you'll be > violating a doc license somewhere. It's one of the reasons why we > don't use existing unofficial wiki content in our docs. I and the GDP > have written about that ad nauseum over the years; just search the > list archives.=20 ack. It should /not/ be a goal of the Wiki to maintain official docs. > [...] > Show me a wiki that produces such beautiful code samples (with > titles).=20 > [...] > . . . or a wiki that makes it super-easy to add all sorts of > additional in-line formatting to regular paragraphs, for example all > the blue highlighting for code used throughout > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xml-guide.xml, or the monospace font > used for filesystem paths. >=20 Let's be honest: Such things can be arranged. Most Wikis have a {{foo}} -> foo syntax already built in. > Show me a wiki that makes it easy to create tables, for example, > compare RadeonProgram from the x.org wiki: >=20 > http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram?action=3Dedit >=20 > ||<-2 style=3D"text-align: center; background-color: #666666"> > '''Native''' || #666666"> '''R100''' || #666666"> '''R200''' || #666666"> '''R300''' || #666666"> '''R400''' || #666666"> '''RS690''' || #666666"> '''R500''' || #666666"> '''R600''' || #666666"> '''R700''' || >=20 >=20 > . . . that's one line of cells. One. Ugly. Compare it to: >=20 > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xml-guide.xml#doc_chap5_pre1 >=20 > > > > > > > This is an example for indentation > more stuff > >
FooBar
>=20 Meep. That's an unfair one. The guidexml snippet does not contain any styling. (Oh wait, I forgot, it doesn't even support styling. [another reason why it sucks for websites]) > [...] >=20 > I ain't out to stop ya'll from using a wiki. I do agree that they > have some advantages. However, I will point out how limited wikis > are. They're not a magic bullet that will solve all our problems. Again: Official docs should not be considered as Wiki material indeed. Of course if someone feels like experimenting with such things in the Wiki, feel free to. If the experiment should be really successful, the GDP might reconsider. But it's still the GDP's sandbox and as long as they're playing in it, don't take away their toys. Let's work *together* towards a better Gentoo, so let's consider the official docs off-limits for the Wiki effort (at least for now) as there are valid reasons against such a thing. Alex --=20 Alex Legler | Gentoo Security / Ruby a3li@gentoo.org | a3li@jabber.ccc.de --Sig_/N2hNiNi5+RkKETbzFka=BAj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAku4VWMACgkQk+oqhfPAZGnsUQCbB+PXEBrWIETi60uD1O1gRF1I MK8An3ETxuliExZK7mUgmc+R4xu65JmG =7Lk/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/N2hNiNi5+RkKETbzFka=BAj--